Key Takeaways
- How Anna launched her business as a curator – and how it helped her develop the expertise to give advice and guidance of her own.
- How Anna’s work naturally led to a small, course-based business – and what she did to move from one-on-one coaching to the membership model.
- Why Anna had to close her membership site for the first time in 2014, what she learned from this failure, and how she re-launched into two flourishing businesses.
- How Anna’s communities help her retain and recruit new members – and how she’s even helped her members become coaches within her membership site.
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Ready to reclaim your time and attract more monthly paying customers? Our step-by-step guide will show you how to build a membership site that turns your passion into recurring profit. Click here to download!Memorable Quote
- “I was successful on the outside, but I hated my business. I didn’t have time for my daughter, which was the whole reason I went into business for myself – to have more freedom and flexibility. I needed to do something different.” – Anna Runyan
- “If you’re overwhelmed creating, your members are overwhelmed consuming.” – Anna Runyan
Episode Resources
Transcript
Read The Transcript
Shelli Varella: Anna Runyan, welcome to the It’s a TRIBE Thing Podcast. How are you?
Anna Runyan: Good. Thank you. I’m excited to be here.
Shelli Varella: I’m excited to have you and I’ve been a fan of yours because you and I are both original TRIBErs.
Anna Runyan: Oh yeah. Oh, geez.
Shelli Varella: Yeah. Oh, geez, the original gangstas. I’d love hearing your story and I’ve been privileged to watch it unfold and develop as your business does, but for all the people who are listening, I want to talk eventually about your membership site and how that works for you, but I’m wondering if you can share with our amazing audience who you were before you had the membership site and how this came to be.
Anna Runyan: Okay. Before I had the membership site, I was doing a lot of individual coaching. I am an introvert and so I was spending all my day on the phone and I had like I had to have calls to get clients, first of all, so one day would be booked just like sales calls and then the rest of the week I was booking at my time with actually serving my clients. And it was great in the fact that I was actually able to quit my day job, I actually had a business, I had income coming in, but I was just not happy and my mission in life is to help all women find career fulfillment and that starts with me. And so, I just felt like this big tug if I’m going to live my mission of helping other women find career fulfillment, I have to be fulfilled and happy and love what I’m doing too. And so, I just remember that was just like this tug and this time in my life where I looked like I was being successful from the outside, but I just like hated my business and I hated what I was doing and I was a new mom and I didn’t have time for my new daughter which is like the whole reason I went into business myself to have freedom and flexibility. And so, it was just this moment of like what am I going to do? I need to do something different like this is just not working.
Shelli Varella: So, before you started coaching, I’m curious like for those people who were listening like, clearly, we’re going to be talking about your membership site but what did you do before you coached? So, basically, it was Anna Runyan before coaching and then you became a coach and then segued into this membership site that has allowed you so much freedom in your life. But how did that start at the very beginning for you?
Anna Runyan: At the very beginning, it started as a blog. So, it was this little blog called Classy Career Girl and I started documenting my journey of what I was learning in my day job. I was going to business school at night and so I was blogging about what I was learning at night and I did not plan on it being a business whatsoever. I didn’t think I had what it took to become an entrepreneur. At that time, I was not very confident in myself. I was an introvert, and so at that time I hadn’t realized the positive side of being an introvert and so I thought I was the shy girl. I thought I would never have what it takes to be an entrepreneur until I decided that this was going to be the route that I was going to take and I did have what it took. And so, it took a lot of like reading and blogging and I was doing interviews like this. I was interviewing other career experts and other authors and suddenly like I became the expert myself because I was just like giving myself so much information and I was blogging about it and then people started reading that blog. And so, slowly my advice kind of shifted to advice like I was just sharing what I was learning from other people and then all of a sudden I started sharing what I thought and I started giving tips and advice from my perspective and that’s really when everything took off.
Like when I started, I didn’t have my name or my face on my blog because I was scared of what other people were going to think. And so, I’ll never forget like six months into my journey, I put my face out there and then this woman who was a student at Wake Forest University, she asked me to come speak to her class and it was all because I put myself out there and I opened myself up to say, “My name is Anna Runyan,” and from there, like I just realized there are people that I need to help. There’s people that want to hear what I have to say. And so, it became this like tug of like not being so worried about what other people are going to think because there’s a bigger mission, there’s a purpose for me to get out there and to become more confident in myself so I can help more people.
Shelli Varella: I love that that you said because there are so many people who think, “Well, I’m not an expert. Who am I to be giving other people advice?” But to your point like some of the most successful business people start out and sometimes continue as curators of other information and, like Napoleon Hill is a perfect example. He wrote the book Think and Grow Rich and it was all about the study of all of the top millionaires at the time, but he wasn’t himself a millionaire but he became an expert just because he curated information from so many other places that he actually had a perspective that most other people wouldn’t have with a 30,000-point view. So, I mean, it’s interesting because when things like you’re talking about run through your filter, it does end up at some point that you as the person who’s interested in that and learning and educating yourself have a Ph.D. in results.
Anna Runyan: Exactly. Yeah. You learn what works and us all by trial and error and seeing what people respond to and realizing that you have a purpose and a reason to help people too.
Shelli Varella: So, what was the moment when you said, okay, like at the beginning you were thinking like, “Who am I to do this? I’m an introvert?” What was the moment and how did you get over the fact that you weren’t going to do it or thought you couldn’t do it to step over the precipice of saying, “Yes, I’m going to do it even though I’m not sure, even though I might not feel 100% ready,” what was that moment for you?
Anna Runyan: I think for me it was just like I got to try this because I almost quit. I mean, I almost I never forget like I have a three-month-old daughter and I was like in my bedroom like crying because I was like I can’t be a full-time mom and a full-time business owner and be on the call all day and try and clean my house and I was really like trying to be superwoman and like trying to do it all and so I think for me it was just like that rock bottom of like, “Am I going to quit?” or I can’t quit being a mom but am I going to quit this thing that like I know I’m here for a purpose? I know I have this strength to help people so am I going to quit that? And that’s really what I didn’t want to do. And along that time, I started to learn more about online courses, I started to learn more about membership sites, and so I started with the course. I started putting all of the systems that I have learned from working with people one-on-one. It was such a gift to work so many years with people one-on-one because I had a system down. I knew what they were asking me, I knew their issues, I knew their challenges. And so, for me, it was fairly simple at that point to put it into the system to guide people through in a course experience. And so, that’s what I did and that’s where it started.
Shelli Varella: I love that you mentioned that because that’s something that everybody needs to remember. It’s okay to start small, and when you are either doing one-on-one or you start with a really small membership site, it really does give you a chance to go deep with your people and really get intimate in terms of what are your challenges, how can I help you, and helping them through that in a very personal way.
Anna Runyan: It’s such a good idea. People ask me that all the time. Should I start one-on-one? And you learn so much, so, so, so much from interviewing people and just talking them through their problems.
Shelli Varella: So, going from coaching, how did you first hear about membership sites? How did that come onto your radar and then what was the process by which you move from coaching one-on-one to membership site and all the people that you’re serving now?
Anna Runyan: So, I learned about WishList Member which is the company that Stu McLaren cofounded. That was the plug-in that I was using for my course and so he obviously is a big fan of membership sites and so that’s where I started. It was just this being in the space of just learning and seeing what other people were doing and realizing like I could do this myself and I would come clear like I started a membership site in 2013 and it didn’t work like I had to close my first membership site in 2014 when I had my first daughter because it was like plateauing like I was getting a certain number of members and I was losing a certain number of members. So, like I couldn’t keep it up and it was like so much work but that was before I learned how to actually run a membership site. And so, I always like to say that because I know we’re going to talk about like a failure and that’s just a big one in my head because I learned so much from that failure
Shelli Varella: So, how did you flip that failure?
Anna Runyan: So, how I flipped that failure is when I close it down, I like made a list of all the things that I like hated about that membership site and I kind of put it on the side of like, “Okay. I’m not sure if membership site is for me,” but I knew that I could do it better in the future like I knew there was something to membership site. I knew there was the freedom and there was the flexibility, and I knew that there were people that were able to do this successfully and I knew that I had like it’s kind of one of those like confidence things like I knew I had the potential to be like anyone else out there that I could do it myself. So, when it came time to start my membership site for the second time, I did things a little differently so one thing I did is I got really clear on my niche. And so, I actually started two membership sites the second time because I realize the first time that I was I was just too broad like way too broad and it didn’t help the people because it didn’t attract a certain type of person. It was like any professional woman like, “Okay. That’s a lot of people,” and so my market kind of split into two and that’s why now I had two membership sites so that I can serve them in a very specific way.
And I created kind of like a curriculum for them to go through step-by-step, through phases and four, I was just throwing content at them every single month like I was getting overwhelmed and they were getting overwhelmed and that’s key. If you’re overwhelmed creating content, the people that are trying to consume it are also overwhelmed.
Shelli Varella: That’s worth mentioning again.
Anna Runyan: Huge.
Shelli Varella: If you’re overwhelmed creating it, they’re overwhelmed consuming it.
Anna Runyan: Exactly. So, I kind of stepped it back a little bit. I made it very simple for people to walk through the phases, so they knew where they were at and I also created a whole community around it and that’s one thing I wasn’t doing the first time. I just thought people wanted the content like I did not realize like that people actually would stay for a community and wanted to connect with other people and that was a huge, huge learning point for me because the community is what makes it. I mean, it’s not even me anymore. It’s like there is just an amazing group of people that know more than I do. My memberships, I don’t feel like any more or even just based off me. There is a combination of all the skills and strengths of the people that are in there and that’s just an amazing, amazing thing.
[ANNOUNCEMENT]
Stu: So many people in all kinds of niche markets are leveraging their existing knowledge and influence and they’re transforming it into passive monthly income. This isn’t luck. This is a repeatable formula for producing a growing subscription income and if thousands of others can do it, you can too. To find out what type of membership site would be right for your business, visit GetTRIBEGuide.com. Go to GetTRIBEGuide.com and download it today. You’re awesome.
[INTERVIEW]
Shelli Varella: Well, that’s one thing that I also love about membership site is that the community is it becomes its own entity and it’s kind of like if you’ve ever tried to accomplish something that people say you’re a cross-section of the five closest people you hang around with and if they don’t understand your vision and even if they’re trying to love you within the filter of what they deem as possible, sometimes it has that little voice in the back of your head going, “Maybe they’re right. Maybe I shouldn’t do that,” but when you’re surrounded by a community of people who are championing you, who believe the same things you believe, who are going in the same directions, it really becomes a situation where the sum is greater than the individual parts.
Anna Runyan: And they get inspired by each other too and support each other in accountability and I know they come for the content but stay for the community and that’s like I’ve seen it over and over again like someone just posted like I stay here for the community and that’s like a huge reason that they stay. And so, the other thing too is knowing that they’re there for making progress and so that was huge and most recently I have really been thinking about that too. It’s like how can I help them make more progress, rather than here’s just a bunch content to go through. It’s like really thinking how that content is going to help them make progress or bring in someone else to help them make progress too. And so, it’s not about the overwhelm and that’s what I did wrong the first time. I was overwhelmed. They were overwhelmed. And so, I really think it’s about less and that’s what I love about membership sites like I could talk about this all day long. It’s like it doesn’t have to be hard to do a membership site. And I think a lot of people get worried that it’s going to be so much content and I have to do it every single month and it’s just the wrong mindset because it can be so much fun and it can be so fulfilling.
The other thing too is that your members like I have members who have been with me for three years like it’s so fun to see their journey from the beginning to today whereas, like a course, it’s over. It starts and it stops and so that’s another reason that it just works for membership sites work for me and my business is just I want to do life with them. I want to like grow with them.
Shelli Varella: That’s awesome.
Anna Runyan: Yeah. So, I got to see them grow. They’ve clearly got to see me grow and we’re friends and now peers like some of those early day members are now peers of mine and I look to them for advice too because they’ve just grown so much in their specialty and industry.
Shelli Varella: Well, and that’s a testament to you as well in how you serve and what you offer. I was going to ask you so for those people listening, like what would you say the advantage of a membership site is over a course?
Anna Runyan: Well, for me, you can really meet people where they’re at and it’s not something you need to do super quick. So, I feel like, for a membership site, it’s this journey and when I first started a course, I did it for 90 days and I turned that into a membership because I realize after 90 days, my people were still stuck like they still needed more help. They were still asking more questions. They still kept coming to me over and over again. And so, for me, it was just this realization that they still needed me along this journey and so looking at my products and what I deliver now there is a path and there’s like a long path because getting to and from my membership site is like getting to that clear fulfillment. That can take years. And not only that, like sometimes you’re fulfilled but then a year later, you’re feeling kind of stuck.
And so, figuring out where you can serve your members, but in this long journey of life like it’s so much fun to do. It’s like that’s what I think is better and obviously like you in today, I have courses, I have a membership, but my real love is the membership community because I get to be with them every single day. I get to celebrate their wins with them. I get to watch them grow. I could sit, hear their stories, and I get to watch them support each other. Even just last week I brought in two of our members who have been with me for a couple of years now. I had brought them in as coaches inside my membership.
Shelli Varella: Oh, that’s incredible.
Anna Runyan: Yeah. So, it’s so fun to like now watch them be coaches and watch their journey and so I think if we think of business in our lives and our legacy as more just like as a long-term thing rather than just this five-week course I’m going to launch and I’m going to make a sale and it’s so much bigger than that when you can think of that vision, that’s also what’s going to make you completely different from your competition as well. Like, I can honestly say I don’t think there are any other programs out there that are similar to my memberships just because it is a membership and it’s this long success path that I’ve created.
Shelli Varella: Well, and the thing is you as the person who’s running a membership, you can’t replace you because you are the lifeblood that brings that that has the vision that’s curated all of these amazing pieces of information and experience through your filter and bringing them to your people and it’s that sort of that inhale and exhale of between you and your community.
Anna Runyan: Exactly. Yeah.
Shelli Varella: I like also what you said too because for those people who are either early in their membership journey thinking about starting a membership and sometimes even those that are well down the path, overwhelm is the key and it almost seems counterintuitive for people who are heart-centered and purpose-driven and service-based entrepreneurs to give less. Can you speak to how scaling it down and really getting a handle on the overwhelm not only makes it easier for you, but makes it easier for your people to consume and make that journey down the success path that you’ve built for them?
Anna Runyan: Yeah. I mean, we break it down into like one tiny little baby step every single week and our members are usually working full-time jobs. So, for us, it’s like it’s 15 minutes a day or it’s one hour a week and thinking through that and like helping them see like if you don’t have to do a ton of work in your week and you don’t have to make this your full-time thing. It’s just those small baby steps and that imperfect action is going to lead to your dreams someday. And so, that’s kind of how we try to phrase it and we also have like checklists and things that they could check off as they go through the membership and certificates after they complete a phase and then we want them to post that in our Facebook group as well. And so, we’re continually trying to reward just those like small baby steps and as they go through the phases and so, then wherever they’re at, they kind of know, okay, here’s my one thing this week and they’ll get an email that says, “Based off your phase like this is like the one thing that you should do this week.” And so, we’re all about just that one thing and just like making it super simple wherever they’re at.
And when they join, they get an assessment as well so they kind of can tell where they’re supposed to be in the membership but the beginning is so important like those early foundational phases and I think that’s what makes membership site different is like they can focus on the beginning. They don’t need to jump to phase 4 like we just really want them to take their time because they’ll be more successful in the later phases if you spend that time in the beginning. And so, with what you said like it’s really about setting that expectation for them like people will get in and they want to just run to the end and so it’s just like it’s showing that it’s okay to go slow and it’s okay to get the foundation in the beginning work. And obviously, that makes it more fun and easier for you too because there’s more time spent in those like beginning phases. And it’s just a matter of getting started because once you get started, then you start creating that content then the content is there for them.
So, it’s easier as you go, as you keep building on your membership, it gets a lot easier because then you get to start, I mean, I just finished. It’s been two years and it’s taken me two years to like officially record all of my five phases. But that’s great because it’s just a journey and you have the time to make it great and you can always reinvest like back into membership site and back into your community. And so, it’s just a step by step. You don’t have to record all the videos in a week like as far as overwhelm, don’t feel like you need to do that. Just take it like step by step.
Shelli Varella: Brilliant advice. So, I love the journey that you have been ongoing from a blogger to one-on-one to the membership site, membership site failing, and then relaunching this incredibly successful two membership sites that you have. I’m wondering, last question, like what is the biggest difference it’s made in your life and what is your big vision for your membership going forward?
Anna Runyan: It’s made a huge difference for me. Most recently I had my second daughter back in August and memberships it really allows me to schedule things when it works for me. I’m a little bit, I make it work for me in my life because that’s how I’ll be the most happy and fulfilled. And so, call times, they’re on my schedule. When I checked into the Facebook group, it’s on my schedule and that allows me to be a mom and that allows me, I mean, this last year like I’ve had to automate a lot of things to my membership and I was able to have a maternity leave and our business did not nosedive whatsoever like we kept our members and they were excited for me and happy for me and I was supposed to actually have a call and I actually had my baby the day I had a call. They were like, “Where’s Anna? Where’s Anna?” and like I posted later. I’m like, “Guys, I had the baby.” But they don’t care, right? They’re just like we have built that relationships where they’re not leaving even though I’m gone for three months, and I’ve brought other people in. I’ve brought experts in. That’s what a membership allows you to do.
You have that freedom, you have that flexibility, and then you can design it, doing your passion or doing what you love, like what is it that you love doing in your business and in your membership? And then you can start delegating some things that you don’t love doing. And so, for me it just completely changed my life when it comes to, obviously, the income, the stress that has been decreased and then just being able to do my passion and impact a lot more people rather than just ten people like we now have 650 members and that’s a lot of people that I get to impact and help on every single daily basis. And my vision, it’s exciting and I’m in the midst of a rebrand and a complete upgrade right now and it’s going to be really, really good. I want to improve the experience for our members and so we’re going to upgrade the membership site and add a lot more community aspects to it and just make it like a really fun place to be online. So, that’s a vision and that makes it just a really great experience.
Shelli Varella: That’s fantastic that not only do you get to feel rested and a little less overwhelmed. You, because of that, get to show up in a completely different way but also, I mean, when you think of the cost of that to your kids now that you’re able to be the kind of parent you want to be, the ripple effect of membership sites going forward once you actually think about like you’re the tsunami for the ripple effect that takes place with your kids, with your members, with the people that they impact is quite profound when you think of it.
Anna Runyan: We haven’t even talked about how my husband, John, works with me as well and we run the membership site together. So, my girls are so fortunate to be able to have that time with me obviously but then their dad too. It’s an amazing time.
Shelli Varella: It’s brilliant. If people are looking for you online, my dear friend, where is the best place they can find you?
Anna Runyan: They can come find me at www.ClassyCareerGirl.com and if they wanted to check out the memberships they can go to www.ClassyCareerGirl.com/join.
Shelli Varella: Amazing. Thank you so much for your time and thanks for doing what you’re doing. You’re a true inspiration.
Anna Runyan: Thanks so much, Shelli. It’s so good to be here.
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